after barack obama got elected, mitch mcconnell was in your position and he basically bucked political science. he did an experiment. take on a very popular president who has a very popular agenda, make every effort to block that agenda without any regard for the polls and just sit back and wait for the voters to punish the governing party and reward you for being obstructionist. it seemed crazy and almost outrageous at the time to people observing in the the moment but it worked like a charm for his party. you're not going to borrow from that play book? >> we are going to be tough. bernie and elizabeth agree with me on this. let's say he proposes -- as he said he would -- a trillion dollar infrastructure bill. we democrats always believed it. bernie campaigned on it but you have to look at the details. we're not going to just go for anything he pro poises. it's going to have to be our bill. so for instance they said we'll do it with tax breaks. you can't build roads and bridges with tax breaks unless you put huge tolls on them that no one can afford to pay back the bonds. let's say th