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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  January 11, 2017 8:30pm-9:01pm PST

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showing people why he was so concerned. trump's instincts about russia are deeply worrying to him and his friend john mccain. >> we thought it was worth it to have you handle that last point. that's it for our broadcast tonight. hard wall with chr-- "hardball christ matthews" begins right now."hardball with christ matth begins right now. we bring a special report on the stories that broke last night. the idea is to examine the relationship between the press in this country and the people in power who they cover. in his press conference today, donald trump criticized the website buzzfeed and also singled out cnn and provoked a heated exchange with jim acosta.
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>> i think it's a disgrace that information that was false and fake and never happened got released to the public. as far as buzzfeed, which is a failing pile of garbage, writing it, i think they are going to suffer the consequences. they already are. as far as cnn going out of their way to build it up, it is a disgrace, and i think they ought to apologize to start with. >> since you're -- mr. president elect -- mr. president elect, since you are attacking our news organization. >> not you. your organization is terrible. our organization is terrible. let's go. quiet. >> mr. president-elect. >> go ahead. she's requesting a question. don't be rude. >> can you give us a question? >> don't be rude. i'm not going to give you a question. i'm not going to give you a question. you are fake news. >> well, it should be noted that nbc is an investor on buzzfeed.
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trump also praised other news outlets. >> i want to thank a lot of the news organizations for some of whom have not treated me very well over the years, a couple in particular, and they came out so strongly against that fake news and the fact that it was written about by primarily one group and one television station. there were some news organizations with all that was just said that were so professional, so incredibly professional, that i've just gone up a notch as to what i think of you. okay? >> nbc's ken delay aney joins u now. i think it's not anger that he's accusing cnn who introduced the notion of this story that there was some material there delivered to trump.
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it wasn't delivered to him in person as you and i talked about. it was delivered to his office in a classified manner, an appropriate manner. but they were somehow using an alley-oop play, that somehow cnn was setting up buzzfeed to do the dirty work. or is he trying to smear cnn with the behavior of buzzfeed? >> i think you're right, chris. >> which is right? he said buzzfeed wouldn't have introduced it if you guys didn't introduce the topic. >> intelligence reporting is hard, chris. and this was highly classified information. is fact that a summary of this was included in a classified compartmented briefing that went to trump and president obama and members of congress, that was a hard get and when nbc news scrambled to confirm that last night it was difficult for us as well. we had to be careful about it. cnn did not public the 35 page list of allegations. buzzfeed did that.
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so -- so -- >> well, if you had gotten it, i'll ask you, as a matter of trade craft, would you have noted it said at this top, disinformation and that the person who gave this stuff to cnn, you don't know whether it's a senate, a congressman, a member of his staff that they didn't note that when they gave it out. cnn wouldn't have put this out if it wasn't identified, tagged or marked as disinformation. whoever gave it to them didn't tell them what it was. >> i think that's a fair assumption. and i think they looked at it and said, hey, it's really significant that this summary of allegations is included in a classified intelligence report. why is it being transmitted this way. that's a question i still have. >> thanks so much. all day today getting this right. joining me now is jackson. she's outside trump tower. give us your sense about having
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watched trump now, covered him. it could get very frictional. he seems like he has the high ground tonight because he caught buzzfeed putting all this stuff that turns out to be disinformation and not intelligence right. listen, what happened today, the president-elect's performance or showing behind that podium at his news conference is going to go a long way with the people who elected him into office. they love to see this. donald trump doesn't lose anything, chris. you know this by going after the media. so to show as president he is not changing, he is still the same donald trump, he is still going to go after cnn and buzzfeed and media outlets he doesn't like, that essentially scores him brownie points with the people who want to see him be combative like that. now, he complimented the media at the same time. you had his incoming press
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secretary and mick pence coming out with tough talk against reporters and against the hundreds of journalists seated in front of him in the room and donald trump came out and praised some of those members of the media, even during the questions. some questions he dismissed as -- he didn't say dumb or stupid, but that was the implications. others he praised. he had been waiting for a question about the affordable care act and it was this interesting strategy of lifting certain members of media up and putting other members down. again, it is not new. we have seen this again and again from donald trump. and i expect that come eight days from now, nine days from now when we're sitting in that briefing room and he holds his first press conference at the white house, it will be similar. >> let's bring in our panel, nbc's katie. gain sherman, andrew sullivan,
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and hugh. i guess i have to make this point. who's right, and who's wrong in this episode? >> donald trump is cherry picking when he wants to praise the media. and i think we have to be very clear on that. for him to come out and say the news media that did not report this -- >> the salacious material. >> now that we've risen in his esteem because of that and he wants to thank us and congratulate us for doing our jobs, tomorrow there could be a report -- >> so you don't want the pat on the head? >> no, i don't. tomorrow there could be news that comes out that he doesn't like and he will call it fake news. he's picking and choosing. >> there is a difference. why don't you delineate it.
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bern steen got a couple stories wrong in bringing down nixon. so mistakes are made even when there's a 90%, 95% probably that you're right. assumptions are sometimes made and cnn made an assumption that was handed to trump. it wasn't actually done the way it was given to the office. >> what's so damaging about this whole episode is that it allows trump and gives him an open to score a political point, that the media is somehow biassed and out to get him. i think it is especially important in the incoming trump administration that the media is a fierce crusader for what is true and what we can prove. and that is why buzzfeed airing an unverified story is so damaging. trump thrives in a culture where we don't really know what the facts are. and the media needs to say, no, there are things that are true. there are things that are accurate and these facts will
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hold donald trump accountable. >> i'd like to know what the cnn reporter's question was, by the way. anyway, buzzfeed's editor was on msnbc last night. here's how he defended his decision to release those documents. >> i think there was an error when you would be the gate keeper to information and say to your audience, trust us, we're keeping things from you, we have lots of secrets, but you could trust us. i think you could say that is a big error. that is not the present day. when you have -- once, though, it emerges as it did last night that in the public conversation there is this secret document floating around full of dark allegations we will not repeat to you, you have to show your reader what is that is. >> what do you make of that defense of putting out all this information, even if this
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gentleman didn't actually believe it was true? >> i think it's pathetic. i don't think it's what you doj. you do try and verify what's true and what you can prove. there are things you don't put out there. i don't agree with him, who's now apparently the best friend of donald trump that, in fact, everything should be transparent. everything should be out there, regardless of whether you vetted it or not. we have a job to figure out what's true or not. insofar as that is being blurred, insofar as trump is trying to equate fake news with good journalism that might have fake a mistake, he's crying to create an environment where he could bewilder us so the truth is the victim. the first amendment is first for a reason. >> let me go to you because it seems to me even if you deal in opinion journalism, which i do as well, you have to deal with a
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fact based mentally. you have to say i'm never going to say something on the air i don't believe is true. but to put out a barrel of stuff that's markeds a disinformation for the public to sort of enjoy, for the enemies of that particular person to giggle over and to try to exploit and enjoy generally and say this is my day is not -- certainly not journalism. i'm not sure what it is. >> i agree with you on that, chris. it was click bait mccarthyism. it really is indefensible. the bad thing that happened today, we have been waiting for months to talk with donald trump about his finances. >> yeah. >> they finally declared the details about the trump trust that was put together. how they have to about in unanimous fashion, how there is going to be an ethics adviser, how he would not take any
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profits out. it is an elaborate white paper put together. there was a lot of news to be made today, a lot of serious news. and what buzzfeed did was throw that out there, make a nefarious allegation for clicks. it was wrong and it destroyed an important news media sicycle. >> when we come back, i want to talk about trump attacks a journist, attacks the messenger. bring the bad news about him correctly usually or not you get nailed by him personally. number two, change the subject. the rabbit somebody says that. we chase it and we don't chase the big news, which is his finances. and punishment. he was like mother superior in school saying you kids were good today. i am going to give you a gold star, but those other two are going to sit in the corner.
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i don't really think is fake news. i think it's just fake. >> the buzzfeed memo is total, complete garbage. >> i want to bring you to a few points made in buzzfeed. it is outrageous and highly
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irresponsible to drop highly salacious and flat-out false information on the internet just days before he takes the oath of office. >> welcome back. those were some of president-elects closest allies condemning buzzfeed for their decision to release that 35 page document about donald trump. they came under harsh criticism. we're back now with katie, andrew and hugh and we're joined by rick stagle. mr. secretary, thank you for joining us. >> once said to edit is to choose. it seems to me when you are given a pile of stuff that is salacious and could be career destroying or at least
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reputation destroying for anybody, including a president-elect, you decide whether it's true or not. you don't act in reckless disregard. >> yes. i wouldn't reckless disregard. i would not have published it. it wasn't a news story. i'd like to know why that was included in the intelligence briefing. >> it was included as a an addendum described in the papers as disinformation. >> which is another reason not to publish it. but what reasons me more is what some of the panelists have said already. the president-elect has talked about narrowing liable laws in this country. it is very hard under the first amendment to liable a public figure. it is almost impossible to liable a president. the reason that speech is protected is because we have to speak truth to power. >> is this truth? >> this is not necessarily, but this is what he might do to the press during his presidency, which is worrying.
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>> let me talk todayty about the tactics he used. but let's go with a larger question. he makes personal attacks against yourself and other journalists, he engages in slight of hands and shifts it away from the fundamental question of the day, which is is he going to distance himself from trump enterprises and then he punishes a cnn reporter in front of everyone and meanwhile patting the heads of reporters he says he likes. >> tactics makes it seem like there is a strategy at hand. i think this is very inherently donald trump. he has got a thin skin, and he is out for revenge when he wants to get it. he calls himself a counter puncher, and this is what we're seeing. but by going after reporters and going after reporters personally by calling them names and by calling organizations names, but
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lifting one up as he tears another down, what he does is creates an alternate universe where he can say this is what the truth this. this is my truth and this is the only truth that matters. that is what he was able to do today and what he was able to do during the campaign. he was able to paint the media as this elite target, this elite force that was not out there for anybody but themselves and their own special interests and not out there for the american public. and by undercutting us, he took away all of the ability to hold him up to facts, to hold him accountable for what he said because he made us people who were never telling the truth. >> unintentionally, he didn't make us a pack. he basically is saying there are good people and bad people. he didn't accuse the whole press. going back to joe mccarthy. he didn't go to the jackle pack. he didn't do that. what do you make of his tactics generally? >> today was interesting because it was a divide and conquer
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strategy. by singling out buzzfeed and cnn, he tried to play to other members of press core, and it was effective. i thought he was calm, confident, he was mixing it up with reporters and he did not answer the substantive questions about his finances and conflicts of interests. from trump's standpoint today was a total victory. >> let me start with the other people. hugh and andrew, did trump win today in this battle between him and the press and how he wants to look? >> only in this regard that he wanted to talk about his finances today, chris, because there was this elaborate establishment of a new trust for the trump organization. i have been waiting for weeks to see it. it makes sense to me. i think he met the bar, but there are some critics who say he did not, the emoluments clause. he could have had a better day. and buzzfeed really did a
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disservice to the media today. >> we still do not know if he has any financial connections with russia and today he said he would not ever release his tax returns. we still don't know if his campaign had any contact with russian officials. those are the two most important questions. by divide and conquer and by throwing up a bunch of distractions and by ruling all media fake news, which is what his goal is, that's the authoritarian, that's the impulse that propels this man, who really doesn't understand what a liberal democracy is all about. >> well said. thank you. we'll be back after this. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah? yeah i got it right here. someone help me!!! i have a flat tire!!! well it's good... good for me. what do you think?
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mr. editor last word. >> he's setting a historic struggle between the presidency and the press like we have never seen before. >> i think you're right. thank you. thanks for being with us tonight. tomorrow former cia director is going to join us. that's hardball for now. thanks for being with us. join me tomorrow night at 7:00 eastern. see you then. >> if you want a different kind of breaking news, turn to people who break the mold, with coverage that takes you beyond the banner. a trusted nbc news journalist. we are suing the epa. >> from where the news is
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click to activate your within. ask your doctor about once-weekly trulicity. joining us this hour. here's the story. in march of this past year there was an explosion in pasadena, texas. pasadena, texas, is about 11 miles outside of houston. there was a big explosion followed by a fire. smoke and flames could be seen for miles around. look at that. the whole neighborhood around this fire and explosion had to be evacuated. even the houston ship channel, the freeway onramp for all american oil, it had to be shut down, the whole ship channel. it was not exactly national news when this happened in pasadena, texas in march. it was a big deal. locally it was a really big deal. >> a plume of smoke and fire at the prsi refinery, serious enough to shut down the washburn tunnel and ship traffic on the channel for a time.


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