tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX June 13, 2021 6:00am-7:00am PDT
1000 times. yeah, we take care >> chris: i'm chris wallace. president biden takes his "america is back" policy on the road hoping our adversaries feel the heat and our allies fall in line. ♪ ♪ >> president biden: democracies of the world are standing together. >> chris: in his first international trip as president, mr. biden turns the page from the trump "america first" policy, rally in europe against russia and china and promising american leadership in the global vaccination effort. >> president biden: in times of trouble, americans reach out. >> chris: today we will speak with the current and previous secretaries of state. first, antony blinken, about mr. biden's promise that democracy can deliver, and this week's high-stakes sitdown with
russian president putin. then we will get reaction from former trump secretary of state mike pompeo. blinken and pompeo, only on "fox news sunday." plus, vice president harris gets the global stage with a message to migrants to rethink dangerous travel to the u.s. border. >> do not come. >> chris: we will ask our sunday panel about the blowback she is getting from the right and left. and our "power player of the week," an olympic gold medalist on the debate over transgender athletes in women's sports. all right now on "fox news sunday." and hello again from fox news in washington. president biden continues to meet with american allies in europe hoping to rally them to join the u.s. in countering russia and china. he's trying to engage them on
trade and human rights, on covid and climate change, pledging "america is back" is a better partner than it was under president trump. all this before the main event of the trip when he sits down with russian president putin in geneva on wednesday. this hour, a fascinating exchange as we talk with both secretary of state antony blinken and his immediate predecessor, former secretary mike pompeo about the change in foreign policy from trump to biden. but first let's bring in peter doocy with the latest on the president's meeting with other leaders of the g7 industrial democracies. >> trying to make nice with leaders in europe. >> u.s. president [indiscernible]. >> the g7 featured a lot of photo ops and some major announcements, like a plan to donate a billion covid-19 doses to low income countries and to confront problems on the horiz
horizon. >> the key challenges of this century, cybersecurity, emerging technologies, global health, and climate change. >> the full g7 is planning to sign a joint communique sunday condemning china for unfair trade practices and human rights abuses. from the g7, biden hits to nato headquarters in belgium with russian aggression on the agenda. then flies to geneva for a meeting with the russian president. >> president biden: we are not seeking conflict. >> president biden of course is radically different from trump because president biden is a career man. he spent virtually his entire adulthood and politics. >> president biden doesn't want to give too much away publicly. >> what's your message to putin? >> i will tell you after i deliver it. >> it doesn't sound as though that meeting will be like this one with lots of joking and elbow bumping. the u.s. and russia are already outlining major issues with one another they want to discuss and there will not be a joint press
conference afterwards. the white house tells us the president is going to come out and explain how he think it went with putin solo. chris. >> chris: peter doocy traveling with the president in england. peter, thanks for that. and joining us now, the secretary of state, antony blinken. mr. secretary, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> secretary blinken: thanks, chris, it's great to be with you. >> chris: this trip is building up to i guess the climax, the meeting with russian president putin in geneva on wednesday. here's what putin said this week about relations between the u.s. and russia. take a look. >> we have a bilateral relationship that deteriorated to its lowest point in recent years. >> chris: do you agree that relations between the u.s. and russia are at the lowest point in recent years. >> secretary blinken: well, that may be the one thing i do agree with president putin on and one of the things that president biden will begin to test is whether russia is interested in a more stable,
predictable relationship, which would be to everyone's benefit. but if not, if it continues to take reckless or aggressive actions at our allies or partners, president biden will make clear we respond forcibly as we did in the case with election their parents, solar wind cyber attack, so this is the beginning of testing a proposition about whether russia once more stable relationship itself and whether in some areas where there i mutual interest we can find ways to cooperate. >> chris: when the president arrived in europe earlier this week, he was pretty general about the message he intends to convey to mr. putin, take a look at what he said. >> president biden: then to meet with mr. putin to let him know what i want him to know. >> chris: so let's get more specific. putin just said or it was reported that he said this morning that he is willing to hand over cyber criminals to the u.s. if we hand over cyber
criminals we are harboring to him. is that a satisfactory resolution to the ransomware problem? >> secretary blinken: chris, i don't want to get ahead of the president, but let me say this: when it comes to ransomware, no responsible country should be in the business of harboring criminal organizations engaged in those practices and that is something that the president very much intends to take up with president putin. that's very much on the agenda. >> chris: but what can he do about it, mr. secretary? i know he can say there are these gangs, they are shutting down our pipelines, they're shutting down our food supply, but other than complaining about it, what can the president do? >> secretary blinken: look, let me take one step back for a second. we are not coming into -- the president is not coming to this meeting with president putin in a void. we are coming off of the g7 with the e.u. leadership and what we are demonstrating in each of these meetings and summits is that democracies can
come together and work effectively to actually deliver results for our people and by the way, for people around the world, and also, we are working together militarily, economically, diplomatically, politically. we are a very powerful force. there was a major public show that across those countries, 75% of the people on average now have confidence in american leadership and in president biden. that's up from 17% a year ago, so we are now in a position where when it comes to dealing with russia and the challenges it poses or dealing with china and the challenges it poses, we can come with a much more united front and so i think you'll see -- again, i'm not going to get ahead of the president but when it comes to looking for action to deal with things like ransomware, we are in a stronger position with tools of our own and the international community with us to elicit that action. >> chris: why did the president decide to hold a solo news conference after his summit
with putin on wednesday as opposed to the joint press conferences that he usually holds with foreign leaders and the joint press conference that president trump and putin held after their summit in 2018? >> secretary blinken: chris, i think it's the most effective way for the president to be able to talk with the free press and to share for as long as he can what was discussed in the meeting with president putin as well as to cover the entire week, to talk about what we've accomplished over the course of the g7, the nato meetings, the e.u. meetings. by the way, he's doing a solo press conference i think almost right now in the u.k. after the g7, so this is not a rare practice. >> chris: one of the president's main objectives on this trip is to get the allies, both the g7, the e.u., nato, to join together -- i guess not
nato, but the others to join together in calling out china for dumping its exports and unfair trade -- unfair low prices and also to call out china for human rights abuses. now, i know there's a communique but i want to ask you the practical effect. have the u.s. and the allies agreed that they are going to condemn forced labor, for instance by the uighurs. had they agreed they are going to the wto and ask for duties on china for dumping exports? >> secretary blinken: first, chris, it's important in and of itself that the communique that comes out of the g7 and talks about what the g7 leaders have agreed on, it's important in and of itself that there's a focus on china. go back to 2018, the last time these leaders came together. no mention of china in the document summing up what the g7 was focused on. going forward, we had very detailed discussions about the kind of work that could be done, the kind of actions that could be taken, for example in
preventing the export of products made with forced labor in china, or for that matter, preventing the export of products that could be used to repress people in china. all of that was on the table and i think you can expect to see going forward different countries taking action across those areas. but one of the things that's really important, i just want to spend a second on it, one of the things the leaders agreed to was the so-called "build back better" for the world and that is an agreement to work -- to start to pull all of our resources, our development resources, make investments in low and middle income countries, get the private sector to make these investments to build up their health care systems, infrastructure, technology, which will be a strong market for our products, but to do it in a way that's a race to the top, not the bottom in terms of the standards, in terms of respect for workers, for the environment, privacy, all of these things. that's a very powerful positive alternative to what china is doing with its so-called belt and initiative.
we are demonstrating alternative vision for the future and bringing countries along. >> chris: there's also the continuing corigins of covid. i know the preside this 90 day review of u.s. intelligence on what we know, but one assumes if we do anything, we would out -- if we knew anything, we would already know it. i guess the most important question is what is the president prepared to do unilaterally, not through the w.h.o., which has already been staffed by the chinese, what is he prepared to do unilaterally to press china to provide, to share more evidence, more information, especially from the wuhan lab? >> secretary blinken: first, chris, the premise of your question is entirely correct, which is we need to get to the bottom of what happened. we need accountability, but we also need to understand what happened, why it happened, how it happened if we are going to necessary measures to prevent it from happening again or at least to be in a better place to mitigate the next pandemic if we
can't fully prevent one and so we need this transparency, we need this information. the w.h.o., you're right, the first study that they put out was highly deficient. the leaders of the g7 have come together insisting that china cooperate with the so-called phase two trend study by the w.h.o. to really get to the bottom of what happened but that is -- that's not enough. the president ordered this 90 day sprint. we looked at this very hard. he ordered back in march that we try to determine for ourselves the origins of covid-19 and we came up with two plausible excellent nations. one is the so-called natural occurrence going from animal to human. the other is a lab leak. but we couldn't determine with any degree of certainty which one it was buried with the president has ordered now is to -- with the intelligence community, bringing all of the different agencies of government and also our national labs, other experts, bringing all of that expertise to bear to look at every piece of information we have two see if we can make a determination. going forward, the thing that is
most critical besides accountability is, again, making sure that every country, including china, cooperates with the international community in making sure that we have the transparency, we have access for experts in real-time, we have information sharing so if something starts to percolate again, we are on top of it. >> chris: finally, your immediate predecessor, secretary pompeo, is waiting on the wings, going to be coming up in the next segment. if briefly, what would you tell him it's the biggest difference between biden foreign policy and trump foreign policy? >> secretary blinken: chris, i'm resolutely looking forward, not backward. please say hello to mike, we've had a lot of good conversations and i look forward to the next one, but we are focused on the future moving forward. we had a very good couple of days with the g7 in actually demonstrating that democracies can come together and deliver for people in real ways, real outcomes.
a billion shots in arms, that's remarkable. dealing more effectively with climate change, prohibiting financing of coal-fired plants, which is the biggest single contributor to emissions. this build back better for the world that i talked about. the 15% global corporate minimum tax that's going to give countries around the world a stronger tax base stronger markets for us ultimately, so that's what we are focused on as well as strengthening nato and working with the e.u. and dealing with mr. putin. so please say hi to mike buried >> chris: that is a very diplomatic answer for the secretary of state. secretary blinken, thank you, thanks for your time in the midst of the president's trip and please come back, sir. up next, we will get reaction from secretary blinken's predecessor, former secretary of state mike pompeo joins us next. ♪ ♪ married. that's 1958. over the years,
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find your own andy at schwab. ♪ ♪ >> chris: on wednesday, joe biden will become the fifth u.s. president to sit down with russian president putin and as usual in these summits, there are a number of critical issues. joining is now, former secretary of state under president trump, mike pompeo. mr. secretary, welcome back. >> mike: good morning, chris, it's going to be with you again, sir. >> chris: you just heard my conversation with secretary blinken. your reaction?
>> mike: well, generically, when i hear the administration talk about taking america back, they are talking about back to what president obama did for eight years where america was weak. we might have been -- a lot of people talk about how they are having this really fun time over at the g7, everybody likes president biden. what's important -- they respect us, we deliver good outcomes for the american people. we need to focus on the things that matter most to america. when i hear that they have raised climate change to the singular most important topic that they are going to cover when the great european economies in the great economy -- meet together to have a chance to grow and create prosperity and buildout peace throughout the world. when i had a greener deal is the top of the agenda, i worry that we have raised an issue that is not the thing that will make lives better for the american people most quickly and most dramatically. >> chris: as we've said, the centerpiece of this trip is this coming wednesday interview one
president biden sits down with russian president putin. if you have been critical of biden as being too soft on russia, you criticize the fact that he renewed the start five nuclear arms treaty, you criticized the fact that he also lifted the sanctions that allow completion of the north stream gas pipeline between russia and germany. when these two men sit down on tuesday -- on wednesday, rather, are you worried about what's going to happen? >> mike: i heard secretary blinken say the right words, right? we want to find the places we can work alongside the russians. we try to do that too but there was no administration that was tougher on russia. we worked diligently to support ukraine with defensive weapon systems. we built up the united states military. we left nato $400 billion stronger than we took over. we built out that relationship between the united states and nato in a way that really put pressure on vladimir putin. what i will look for is the
actions. it won't be about what is said, it won't be about whether the tone is right. it will be about the actions that the united states government is prepared to take to preserve and defend american interests and stop motion to russian malign activity around the world. you'll recall, when you hear about president biden taking us back, back as the russians taking crimea on the watch of president obama, a fifth of ukraine. that's not a back that the united states can afford to allow to happen and we need to defend the united states against the threat that vladimir putin may pose, whether it's cyber or kinetic or any of the other information that vladimir putin will try to force upon america if president biden is weak. >> chris: let me ask you about a specific issue and i think it's right now at the top of the agenda, and that is ransomware, these attacks on vital u.s. infrastructure coming from gangs out of russia. i asked secretary blinken about that and he said with the support of all the allies that the u.s. is prepared to take action. he wouldn't say what it was, but to take action if russia is
going to continue to harbor these gangs. what action should president biden be willing to take to >> mike: so chris, that's really a tale of three pipelines. we shut down 10,000 jobs with the keystone pipeline here in the united states of america and then they permitted the russian pipeline to continue to be built that will threaten the heart of europe's energy infrastructure and of course referring to the cyber attack on the kona pipeline. president trump and her team were very clear about what we would do in response to cyber attacks. if it's a pretty arcane idea but we change the rules that permitted us to respond to these attacks. i hope that the biden demonstration will use the tools that we provided. we've got the capacity to respond to this in a way that imposes costs of not only on the perpetrators themselves. sometimes criminal gangs, sometimes state-backed entities, but make sure we impose those costs in a place that vladimir putin i'm who is allowing this to take place, can actually feel the cost and convince him that it's in his
best interest to stop this from happening and stop attacking america through this cyber tool that is not much different than other kinds of attacks on the united states. >> chris: but mr. secretary, let's look back at the trump record of under president trump, the administration didn't stop russia from completing -- and they continued during the trump administration to build the north stream pipeline, by the end of the administration it was 90% completed and president trump never condemned russia for the poisoning of alexei navalny or his arrest and both of those happened on his watch. >> mike: well, chris, you said it yourself, they didn't complete the pipeline. we had imposed real sanctions on the ships that were doing the construction, the insurers that were underwriting. we make clear that that pipeline was not quinn to be completed. it would not have been completed had we had four more years, i'm very confident of that and with respect to human rights, we take a backseat to no one. i heard secretary blinken talk
abut the work they're doing to try and convince the europeans to stand alongside us on human rights violations in china and the work that they've done defending human rights against russian abuses. we were tough there too, chris. i'm proud of the work we did there. it was good work, it was serious work and it made a difference. >> chris: you also criticize president biden for not pushing hard enough on china to learn the origins of the coronavirus, but i want to again go back to your administration and the record there. president trump and his team, including you, had almost a year after covid-19 first came on the scene, to really press beijing on what the origins work when the evidence was much fresher. there's no question that the president pulled back from the w.h.o., the world health organization, but what did president trump and his administration, including his
secretary of state, due to press china harder to get the evidence on where the covid-19 virus came from? because we still don't know. >> mike: chris, the predicate of your question is all wrong. we have a really good idea of what happened here. there is an enormous amount of evidence that there was a leak from the wuhan institute of urology. as a pile of evidence hundred feet high that i have high confidence that that's the case. we pressed the chinese company to party really hard. we withdrew from the w.h.o., which had become politicized. the said administration chose to get back in that. i don't know what tools they think they are going to use but we were serious in this endeavor, we make clear that there would be real cost of the chinese government's party. we built that operation warp speed, i was thrilled to hear they are going to distribute these vaccines around the world to countries that need it. they couldn't do that but for the work that happened on the project work speed, it was remarkable and historic work to put real pressure on the chinese communist party and we got very
close to being able to make a laydown case for what actually happened and how this virus came to kill millions of people around the world and destroy billions of dollars in wealth, it's time for account ability. speeone's are just about mess up and i want to ask about one more question, do you believe that the virus came from a lab leak from the wuhan institute? >> mike: i do. >> chris: finally, let's turn to the illegal immigration crisis on the border and vice president harris' trip this week to guatemala and to mexico. she says the key is dealing with the root causes in those countries south of the american border and she dismisses our trip to our southern border as, her words, a grand gesture. does she have a point in the sense that as long as the conditions in mexico and the
northern triangle countries are so bad, people are going to keep coming? >> mike: chris, the conditions down there are no different than they were in j ois year and we fed multiples and multiples of people come across the border so it's not the conditions down there that have caused the current crisis at the border, it's the policies of the biden demonstration. we knew how to make it work, i negotiated the remaining mexico, we convinced the countries it was in their best interest as well. don't take my word for it. this week the mexican leadership in the guatemalan leadership said this problem is a direct result of team biden's foreign policy and its immigration policy. the conditions are pretty static down there. the first responsibility -- we got there -- it's just simple math. the highest in 20 years, this is the result of a bad border policy. it's a graded -- it's created a
crisis. and norma's devastation to human beings in trap across the board. it's really bad for the united states and that's not a result of its happening in central america. it's a result of what's happening in washington, d.c. >> chris: secretary pompeo, thank you, thanks for coming in today, always good to talk with you, sir. up next, we will bring in our sunday group to preview the biden-putin summit and to review vice president harris' trip to mexico and guatemala this week. why is she getting such blowback from both the right and left? ♪ ♪
we believe at newday usa we have a noble purpose. we want to be known as america's mortgage company for veterans and active-duty service people. some of them are giving their lives right now, today, for the freedoms that we have here in this country. so for us, at newday to help those people at this point in time. it's a labor of love, it's a noble service, and that's what we're all about. >> chris: coming up, vice president harris took some hits from liberals this week for her comments on immigration. >> do not come. do not come. >> chris: we will ask our sunday panel about that and if she'll finally visit the southern border next.
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so, marc, let me start with you. how do we think that president biden's foreign trip is going so far and what do you expect from this much-anticipated summit with vladimir putin? >> well, it shouldn't be hard for biden to have a smooth trip with our european allies because all he has to do is not be donald trump. i'm sure they are thrilled not to be challenged on their trade practices, not being challenged on meeting their nato commitments and i'm sure germany loves not being pushed to cancel it snored stream 2 pipeline that's going to make russia more dependent -- europe more dependent on russia for natural gas. in terms of china, you'll notice that secretary blinken didn't answer your question when you ask him are you going to get a communique that condemns chinese slave labor. if he hasn't been able to get the european allies to meaningfully challenge china in any way and the reason is because the european union has huge trade investment ties with beijing and they're not willing to risk those, so, so far, not
so good. >> chris: catherine, the most immediate problem, i think, maybe not long-term, but the most immediate problem that biden faces when he sits down with putin for these ransomware attacks coming from russia onto the u.s. two major parts of our infrastructure, whether it's oil pipelines or the food supply. a couple of questions, talking to your sources in the white house, how much control do they think that putin has over these russian gangs that are launching these cyber where -- ransomware attacks and how tough do you get the sense because all that secretary blinken would say if they are prepared to to action. how tough do you think biden is prepared to get with putin in terms of what if you don't roof these gangs out? >> i think that is the question, right, chris? the white house certainly is saying this is going to be a candid meeting, this is going to be a tough meeting. they expect the president to
send tough messages like issues like ransomware, issues like aggression of the ukrainian border, so they are saying is prepared to do that but there also, as you have the secretary, talk about how they also want to talk about areas where there could be cooperation, so i think one key question is how do you walk that line? how you train present both opportunities for working together as well as sending these tough messages he met another thing that you spoke about with the secretary is the fact that there will not be a joint press conference at the end of this, so we will hear from president biden, but we won't see the two of them together sending any kind of messages to each other publicly. >> chris: harold, how vulnerable do you think president biden is to the dash to the comments you heard from secretary pompeo and others and kind of implied by our panelist marc thiessen here, that biden is too weak when it comes to dealing with russia and china? >> i don't think much. i heard both secretaries, as we
all did, and you did a great job with them, it's clear that they are both -- particularly secretary pompeo and even some of marc's comments suggested people are trying to draw competition between president biden and former president trump. the competition happened last november and president biden won. if you listen to our allies at the g7 meeting, particularly president macron and others, who said look, we welcome this new relationship not because he's not donald trump, but because this president realizes that leadership on the global stage, president biden, involves partnership and cooperation. we can't win this new cold war against china, we can't stop cyber attacks from russia and even aggression on the part of russia without having partners and allies around the globe. i think it's interesting, when we do talk about -- if we do look back for moment, we have to realize we live in a messy and a dangerous world, even under president trump, whose tone against china supported, but his policies and rhetoric never really lined up. we lost hong kong, he slapped some sanctions on but we didn't
really make the progress we wanted to make on that front. again, i give him credit for his tone but with regard to russia, one of the most massive cyber attacks the country ever faced we faced in the second half of 2020. in fact, secretary pompeo cited it and president trump wouldn't let the state department released a statement saying -- assigning blame to russia, he wanted to sign it to china. so instead of looking back, let's do what secretary blinken said, resolutely look forward. i anticipate a very strong and direct and candid meeting between president biden and president putin and i'm pleased to see they are not going to stand side-by-side and have a press conference afterwards and was there is something meaningful to stand side-by-side to talk about with. >> chris: let's turn to vice president harris' turn on the international stage this week with her visit to guatemala and to mexico and there was a lot of criticism of the trip. this may have been the low point, take a look. >> this whole thing about the border, we've been to the
border. we've been to the border. >> you haven't been to the border. >> and i haven't been to europe. i don't understand the point that you're making. i'm not discounting the importance of the border. >> chris: marc, how fair is the criticism that vice president harris is getting, interestingly enough from both the right and the left for her trip this week? >> very fair. how can you not be prepared for that question and have a good answer? it's just communication incompetence. it's been 82 days since president biden assigned her to being in charge of the border crisis. this is her first trip to central america and she still hasn't been to the southern border. as a very easy way, she's getting annoyed about why don't you go to the southern border, there's a really easy way to solve that. go to the southern border, it's not that hard. but why doesn't she want to go to the southern border? she's going to get the same criticism on that trip that she's gotten on this -- it focuses on border security and what they're doing to secure the border, then the left is going
to attacker and if she can't show that, that they are securing the border, than the right is going to point out that what's happening on the southern border is as secretary pompeo rightly pointed out, a direct result of lifting the term policies which had prevented this surge of migrants. >> chris: catherine, there are reports that that the biden -- not too happy about vice president harris' trip. they were disappointed in her performance. i guess two questions. one, is that true, and secondly, what can you tell us about the relationship between biden and his team and harris and her team? is their trust, is there respect? >> what we know for our reporting is that there was some confusion on some people at the white house about the way the vice president handled that question, that moment in that interview and some concern that that could overshadow other aspects of the trip and policy announcements she was there to
make, but certainly broadly we've heard people say that they thought the trip went well. her aides really think that she did what she was supposed to do, deliver the message she was supposed to deliver in one moment they will point to is her giving a press conference with the leader of guatemala, sending a strong message about, you know, corruption there and folks certainly also argue that this is always going to be a tough assignment. the vice president said that herself when she did a press conference, that this wasn't going to be solved in just one visit and she framed this as a success. we hear from people that the president and the vice president, you do work closely together, we see them together a lot, she is engaged on some top issues for the administration. she obviously has a lot of tough assignments. migration being one of them, also voting rights. so she is -- she is taking on a lot of difficult issues for the administration. >> chris: and real quickly, catherine, when they give her these assignments, they seem like no-win assignments like voting rights in the border, are they happy with that, the harris
team, or did they feel like you're giving us all the tough stuff, all the hot potatoes? >> certainly they are not complaining publicly, chris. this is the vice president's job, right? you saw this when joe biden was vice president, often they do take on some of the thornier things and one of the things the vice president is doing is showing that she's a team player she does these. >> chris: all right, panel, we have to take a break here but when we come back, there are now calls for two attorneys general who served under president trump to testify about why the justice department sought the phone and department sought the phone and email records of two members of (vo) while you may not be closing on a business deal while taking your mother and daughter on a once-in-a-lifetime adventure — your life is just as unique. your raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your dreams,
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department of justice as a cudgel to go after his enemies. >> chris: democratic congressman adam schiff reacting to news that the trump justice department subpoenaed the phone and email records for him and congressman eric swalwell as part of a leak investigation and we are back now with the panel. harold, as a former member of congress yourself, what do you think of the idea of the department of justice issuing subpoenas for metadata, the phone records, the email records, not the content, but who they called, who they emailed of not only two members, sitting members of congress, but also members of their staff and their families? >> well, you don't have to be a former member of congress to read this reporting and realize it's something that could be really, really wrong here. no political official, regardless of what he or she -- where he or she sits in government, local, state, or federal, should be able to use his or her power to enact or to
bring about political retribution. i hope they get to the bottom of this. one of the things that we will find i think in some of these things, chris, is that the subpoena power of the congress needs to be strengthened. it appears that democrat and republican administrations alike have flouted these subpoenas and allowed for years or a year or two to go by when people have forgotten about this or it's no longer relevant in the minds of most americans. that should be changed. two, the guard rails that president trump was able to blow by oftentimes in terms of just the norms of government, what's accepted and not, perhaps congress needs to codify more, not for republican or democrat's to go republican or vice versa or -- but for the american people to have pout, confidence that powers not being abused. >> chris: i understand pursuing leaks of national security information, which was the allegation here, but when you have the department of justice seeking the phone records and email records of two members of congress, doesn't this raise serious questions
about the separation of powers and also about using the department of justice as a political weapon? >> first of all, inspector general michael horowitz is looking into this and he's the same guy, speaking of abuses of power, one cover the obama administration abuse of the fisa process so he's a straight shooter, i'm sure we will get the facts and have an objective report. but we also don't know what specifically they were -- what the investigation was about, what kind of leaks were being done, so we need more information, but the reality is, members of congress have a responsibility to protect classified information and they do not have immunity from being investigated for it -- leaking classified information is a crime. they don't have immunity for being investigated for subpoena -- grand juries for bribery, influence peddling, for other crimes, so why should they have immunity for investigation when it comes to leaking classified information? members of congress don't have
declassification authority, neither do journalists and so these leaks are a serious issue and let's find out what this was about, with the underlying issue was before we draw judgment. >> chris: but marc, how about the fact that apparently the investigation is over and they never found any evidence against these numbers of congress, their staffs, or their families? >> well then maybe -- again, we don't know the full details but then maybe they investigated and found that there was nothing wrong. but the justice department does that all the time but again, i repeat, and birds of congress not have immunity from being investigated by the justice department for criminal acts. if either of these congress men had been involved in bribery, if they were involved in influence peddling, involved in other illegal activity, then no one would question it. the fbi has investigated an effect jailed, and in rested and imprisoned members of congress for those kinds of crimes. leaking classified information is a very, very serious crime and members of congress have a moral and legal responsibility
to protect classified information they are privileged to see. >> chris: catherine, jeff sessions and william barr were both in charge over the course of the trump administration while these subpoenas were being enforced along with gag orders that prevented apple from informing the members of congress. both men -- both men say they knew nothing about this. in the case of sessions you can say you recused himself from the russia investigation, which is supposedly what these leaks were about, but his deputy, the man in charge of the investigation, rod rosenstein, says he didn't know anything about it either. is that possible? >> well, that is the question and that's obviously what democrats are trying to get to the bottom of. senate democrats want both of them to come before the judiciary committee to go over this and yes, bill barr says he
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reopening. that means the state will no longer have those color coded tears the mass or capacity limits. we're gonna give you a rundown of what you can expect. also ahead. the cdc is holding an emergency meeting this week over covid-19 vaccines. why a heart problem is at the center of the controversy. plus, it's devastating, devastating. we are learning more about that deadly crash at an outdoor dining area in san jose. we'll tell you why some neighbors of that bars. say they're going to move out of the area from ktvu. box two news. this is mornings on two and good morning to you. welcome to mornings on two on this sunday, june 13th, i'm claudine wong. wow. i